As much as we've tried to cover all aspects of the skinny model issue its difficult to know exactly what goes on behind the scenes. What is it really like for the girls in the industry and how are they affected? Before the holidays I had the opportunity to ask a few questions to Rachel Clark, a young model on the rise and one of the current faces of Louis Vuitton about the industry, its pressures and what its like to be a model nowadays.
TFFF: When did you first become interested in modeling? How did you get your start?
RACHEL: I wasn't very interested before I started (I was a complete geek tomboy, not a girlie girl), I just went on a whim for it after a hurricane came through and I lost my apartment and my job. I walked into an agency and they signed me on the spot in Miami basically. I lived a few hours from my agency in Florida so I didn't really have much of an opportunity to work while I was there. When I was shipped to New York last February I signed with Supreme who instantly put me smack-dab in the middle of fashion week and I've been in New York ever since.
TFFF: What is the relationship between an agency and a model in terms of health?
RACHEL: I know my agency maintains a very close and caring relationship with all their models. We depend on each other so it's always good to be aware and connected. From my experience, the agency is always on the ball and quick to schedule doctor's appointments for the girls' immediately as things arise because it is important for us to be in good health and to handle medical issues as soon as possible ensures our fluid schedules. I've been scheduled appointments on the spot for a wide range of things, from wisdom teeth to anxiety and even ear aches from frequent flying.
TFFF: Have you ever felt any personal pressure to lose weight from anyone within the industry?
RACHEL: Never. Not once. I have a crazy fast metabolism though and an inability to gain weight so I have to eat constantly to keep weight on which has landed me a notorious rep for eating obnoxious amounts of terrible food with ALL of my agencies. The drivers in foreign countries always gave me a hard time with my constant McDonalds and KFC runs in between shows. Sometimes they would even have it waiting for me when I'd come out from a show. Heck, the head of MDC (Models.com) even refers to me as mayo queen which is just too cute to let go.
TFFF: How do you keep a positive and healthy outlook?
RACHEL: Well I don't really have anything bringing it down in the first place -besides the occasional guy on the street who yells "eat a sandwich" Of course I reply "make it." You have to be able to take criticism and know how to let it roll off you. Understanding and having a lot of patience for negatively inflicting people while knowing and being comfortable with yourself and even being able to laugh at yourself now and then works wonders.
TFFF: Do you feel the media has blown issues regarding model weight out of proportion?
RACHEL: I'd sooner believe people are more influenced by the likes of well known celebrities blaring extreme weight loss across the gossip mags and tabloids if anything. I don't know a single 10 year old girl who knows any runway models but they sure as heck know the names of certain party happy "It" girls in Hollywood. Claiming that people are suffering the influences of such vague concepts as "all those skinny runway models" or fashion in general is really just another media scapegoat for those who can't accept responsibility for their own personal decisions they've allowed themselves to be victimized by.
From a medical standpoint, an eating disorder is considered a mental disorder in one form or another. In most cases they're coupled with addictive personalities, depression, anxiety, and even subtle hints of masochistic tendencies. For the imbalanced factors that aren't genetic, one could go to a psychiatrist who would have a field day trying to pin point which subconscious deep seeded issues provoke the behavior and mindset of a person who suffers from such disorders. I've yet to hear of a diagnosis that blamed a magazine for a disorder that requires such a cocktail of imbalances.
TFFF: Do you think regulations would be helpful or harmful for models?
RACHEL: Well it depends on the purpose of the regulations. The issue divides here for a lot of people. Some feel controversy and concern over the health of the models, others are concerned about the influence the image generates. If it's to get rid of the image of skinny models then it would be harmful to the employment status of all those skinny models, that's a given.
For health, of course there should be a healthy model regulation (who on earth wants sick models?) but health is not truly defined by how thin a girl looks so it would be difficult to enforce. It would be discrimination if a girl who appeared too thin was in perfect health and was barred from working. Statistically there will be a few women out of however so many who suffer from an eating disorder, I do not doubt that a few of those women happen to be models and the statistic of them being so could increase for those who are not well taken care of. The family and friends of the deceased models who were found to suffer from eating disorders claimed they knew of their next-to-nothing eating habits and yet did nothing to intervene or help. Common sense and awareness from their agencies or anyone who observed such behavior could have saved them, their families, and prevented the waves of controversy and finger pointing from staining what many of us would have as honest work.
TFFF: What shows are you looking forward to for F/W?
RACHEL Are you kidding? All I'm looking forward to right now is Christmas break!
29 comments:
She says:
"It would be discrimination if a girl who appeared too thin was in perfect health and was barred from working."
Well, why doesn't someone point out the obvious fact that right now, the fashion industry DOES systematically discriminate against models on the basis of size. It discriminates against women that are supposedly too LARGE. These models ARE "in perfect health," yet they ARE barred from working.
Why does everyone in the fashion industry thinking discriminating against thin models would be bad, but discriminating against larger models is acceptable?
One discrimination is okay, and the other would be wrong? Ridiculous.
This is a gross injustice, and no one is asking the tough questions.
YEAH!!!! I agree with anonymous! CLEARLY the better question would've been "do you feel the media has blown issues regarding model weight out of proportion YOU SKINNY WHORE?"
Do better next time, Miss J.
JUST SAYIN.
To anonymous,
I meant that it would be discrimination to diagnose a model as unfit HEALTH-wise to work based on their size alone. Sorry I should have been more clear. Of course they have the full right to say no if they look too thin for their taste.
-R Clark
This is very interesting. A lot of things I hadn't thought about before to be entirely truthful. Keep the interviews coming, maybe one with a designer or plus sized model next?
Good read. Thank you Rachel for answering those questions and for clarifying on that statement.
"Of course they have the full right to say no if they look too thin for their taste"
Oh, really? That is exactly like a Hollywood producer saying they have the right to say no to Africa-American models because they're too black for their taste. That IS discrimination. That is the very definition of discrimination.
Asking a thin model who hasn't faced discrimination on the basis of her size if she has experienced discrimination on the basis of size is like asking a blonde white actress in Hollywood in the 1950s if she has faced discrimination on the basis of race. Of course she hasn't. She is the physical type that is being discriminated in favour of.
"Their taste" -- my god, that is why agencies DO pressure models into starving, because of designer's "tastes". And does their "taste" warrants the death of models who are trying to fit this "taste"? Or the death of tens of thousands of young women who see this image as the only acceptable "taste" and and indoctrinated into conforming to it?
The designers and the models who fit into this "taste" should perhaps think of someone besides themselves for a change.
See, that's what I love about fashion. It goes back to the good ol' days before silly things like "safety standards" in the workplace, and recognizes that the employer can require whatever he likes about his employees.
I mean, not EVERYONE who works with asbestoes gets cancer, so what if a few workers do? Not EVERY steelworker dies from iron particulate matter in the lungs, so who is anyone to tell the mill owners that they have to install filters? Not EVERY model is dying, so let's just get dead those bodies out of way and make room for those models who aren't.
Hey, if the designers want models to die for their fashions, who are we to say otherwise? I mean, what are a few lives compared to their (oooh, aaah) "artistic vision"?
Listen. I am going to say this exactly once. There is a way to state your opinion without attacking people.
Wait. So a designer can't pick models based on their looks? Isn't the whole point of modeling based on looks? Its kind of ridiculous if they can't say they don't want certain types of models. Should a plus sized store be forced to use thin models along with the plus sized ones in their ads for anti-discrimination purposes? I don't think so.
I'm all for models being a healthy size but there is some serious faulty logic running around here.
Interesting interview, always appreciate a glimpse into the professional world, although it evoked some mixed responses from me.
I feel it's awkward asking a straight size model about size issues for reasons pointed out by other posters, starting with the first anonymous. I also feel uncomfortable with her classifying all eating disorders as a cocktail of imbalances backed by "subtle hints of masochistic tendencies." That's a sweeping statement for a disorder that is highly personalized.
While no psychiatrist would blame a magazine as a stand-alone cause, a caring, holistic-oriented mental health care provider would recognize that many media images can contribute to a negative mindset and a client with eating and body issues is better off seeking more positive imagery in sources like MODE magazine. Oh wait, oops! MODE is no longer being publisherd.
Anyway, JMO.
To anonymous,
Being a model is the very definition of discriminating taste. We know this before we go into it and know fully well everyone is NOT going to fancy you. I've been rejected from shows for all different flavors of reason. I was too tan, I was too pale, they didn't want someone with freckles, I was too thin, I was too tall, my hair color wasn't right, etc. Body size is not the only thing that's discriminated against.
"The designers and the models who fit into this "taste" should perhaps think of someone besides themselves for a change."
If a model is so easily influenced by something like fashion that she would endanger her life to work then I think she should find another job. If a little girl is so easily influenced by the magazines that she would endanger her life then I think mommy should take some parental responsibility and stop buying them for her.
That's like an alcoholic ruining his body, blaming someone else and then proceeds to walk into a liquor store. If the majority can handle it just fine, that's great. Purpose intended. For those who can't, they need to remove themselves from the substance, the influence, and input some responsibility for themselves. Blaming others for one's problems only goes so far, at some point those individuals need to wake up and say "I have a problem"
I think the key thing to remember is the size (no pun intended) of the industry: for every designer, model, retailer, magazine and agency you've heard of, there are thousands more. It runs the gamut from bespoke couture to Primark; from regulated official participants, to skeezy glamour-shot photogs and sweatshops; from multinational designers who advertise in Vogue, to one-employee businesses who sell their wares at Portobello.
Within such a vast industry there are inevitably going to be a tonne of different views and experiences: personally I find it healthy and refreshing to hear from a model who has a great, positive side, and hasn't encountered problems in the industry. It gives me hope that, despite the negative things TFFF has reported on, and I've heard of firsthand in my day job, one can have a great time working in fashion.
Furthermore, I'd disagree that thin models aren't discriminated against: I hope that on the blog we've made that point. Check out Miss J's post on Natalia Vodianova's experiences. Personally, for me, it was a surprise to hear Rachel's comments, as my assumption had always been that all models, at some time, experience problems. Isn't a good thing to hear otherwise?
An interview is designed to show off the interviewee's opinions, not ours: inevitably sometimes people are going to disagree. But please, whatever your opinion on this piece, post it in the style of Aretha: with a little R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
I don't see how it is relevant to conduct an interview on the topic of model size and regulation when the subject admits that such an issue would not be applicable to her. "I have a crazy fast metabolism ... and an inability to gain weight so I have to eat constantly to keep weight on." Certainly we should all be concerned about her eating habits however; any person ingesting a high, constant amount of sodium and saturated fats is asking for trouble.
Without the benefit of true first-hand experience, what can Rachel really offer by way of insight into the situation? There are plenty of second and third hand stories out there, but noone of note has stood up and said, "Yes, bookers do tell/strongly suggest to models to lose weight and take pills and get nose jobs because it has happened to me." They know there will be a huge backlash; I've seen girls get demoted within their agency for much less than that! Any girl in Rachel's current career position would rightly see it as career suicide not to toe the party line; therefore I am taking this interview with a grain of salt.
No offense is meant to you Rachel, I believe everyone has the right to work if they are fit and qualified for it; I just don't believe you were the appropriate person for this interview.
I can field that DowntownVenus I asked Rachel as she is a model working within the industry who was kind enough to talk about things. Most models would not be willing to say anything at all regardless of what their personal experiences are. As you said, many people are afraid to talk at all.
As Olivia said this is designed to show the interviewee's opinions and share their story. It may not be a story that focuses strictly on ED but I felt Rachel's insights gave a window into the modeling world. I wouldn't have posted this if I didn't feel it was in someway relevant to the continued discussion on this site. We are working on more interviews down the pipeline so we will get to stories such as the one's you mentioned DV. Its just a matter of finding the individuals with those stories who are willing to speak.
To Downtown Venus,
I assumed I was asked the questions on the unbiased basis of insight and experience within the industry and not on the basis that I had any sort of tragic horror stories. If that were the case then I fully agree I would have been an inappropriate candidate. Sometimes people like to hear more than one side of the story and not just rely on the negative 2nd and 3rd hand accounts.
To clarify: I wasn't necessarily expecting there to be any 'tragic horror stories'; I've been very interested in this topic and have read a lot on it (maybe more than is assumed of TFFF readers?) so I was simply hoping to hear something more personal and direct.
Rachel is one of the lucky ones. She won the genetic contest of good looks and fast metabolism. Not all girls are so lucky.
But she is right - we can't discriminate against people based on looks. I'd go further and say we can't judge people based on their eating habits either. So what if Rachel likes fast food? Good for her!
But unlike Rachel, a fat women with her eating habits would get blasted and blamed for everything wrong in the world.
Anyway, I hope you have more interviews like this in the future. It's good to get all perspectives. And I hope Rachel continues to have a successful career! It was nice that she took the time to give such an insightful interview.
Sarah, can you point me to the lines in my response where I said “Bad model! Quit the burgers, shame on you”? There was no judgment whatsoever on her liking of fast food, merely a comment of concern on her high frequency of consumption of it.
If we are to be urged to show concern for models who disassociate their health from their eating habits in order to lose weight, should we not also show as much concern and care for those who do it to put on weight? Or analogous to your comments to me, do you think that it is impossible to express concern about someone’s chain-smoking without implying that they need to give up smoking entirely? I love me a Big Mac and I don't beat myself up for eating them, so I’m no hypocrite.
It was not my intent that this thread should deviate to speculate on your individual health Rachel, and I hope that this line of discussion continues only around the idea that everyone deserves our care and concern, not just the people openly struggling in some way or another. We’re all on this planet together.
(p.s. I am pleased to see that sign-in is now required to post)
Beautifull Blog! I have seen a beautifull fashion accessory store- www.antiquepashmina.com with lot of new concepts and designs.
www.AntiquePashmina.com
rachel is awesome!
terrifik, and great interview/blog!
<3dw
I'm really impressed by this Q&A. Can't believe I missed it when it was first posted. Rachel, your responses were thoughtful, unmarked by industry B.S., and spunky. Props also for taking on the haters in the comments.
I'm also a model, and although I can't totally pound the McD's like when I was a teenager, your experiences ring absolutely true. Agencies have an ulterior motive in keeping us thin, of course, but they also have a massive financial interest in keeping us healthy.
Thanks for helping show models can be witty, insightful, and intelligent!
I think that everything Rachel has said is a true statement. it doesnt just apply to females in the industry but males in the industry as well I am a model also and there have been numerous times when someone dislikes you for all sorts of reason not just for size(like all you other's think) but we models dont have a huge influence on american society IE: where not paris hilton, or lindsay lohan, or nicole richie, need i go on. Those people are the ones that are driving the horrible message of thin is in into our childrens heads. And yes there comes a point where that lies souly on the parents to take responsibility and take the magazine away or turn off the tv and nurture that child and get rid of the pollution in that childs head! Thank's Rachel for putting a differnt spin on an old tale...
Rachel, I realize that this is not your intention, but you may not be aware of how callous your comments sound.
Although of course you did not mean to sound this way, to simply tell a parent whose child is influenced by fashion to exercise some control over them is short-sighted, even ludicrous. Short of moving to an Amish community, how can any parent remove their daughters from the influence of fashion, which is all-pervasive? Can they prevent their daughters from entering bookstores? Can they prevent their daughters from speaking to other girls at school? Can they prevent them from every watching television? Or browing the Internet? This sort of parental control would have been unlikely in the 19th century. It is impossible today. There is no way to escape the pervasiveness of media culture, and if that culture is shown to be harmful, it MUST change. That is why the media is regulated. Fashion must become regulated as well.
As for models, the point is not whether a model is "easily influence" by fahion. The point is whether a model should be required to starve to work. This is like the asbestos comparison mentioned above--employers simply doing away with workers sicked by asbestos, and hiring workers who can inhale the toxic fumes and not die (right away). The workplace should not be permitted to be so harmful in the first place. Basic safety standards exist in other fields. They should exist in modelling as well.
Yes, alcohol is legal, but many harmful narcotics are NOT. The damage that anorexia does to young women is at least as terrible as the harm done by illegal narcotics. And since fashion needlessly causes and exacerbates such eating disorders by its harmful imagery (which need not fetishize thinness in the first place), fashion must be regulated, just as narcotics are.
Please understand that I am not calling you callous. But it is how your comments appear.
As far as parents exercising control of their children in regards to what they are and aren't exposed to, it's simply called parenting. Of course parents understand they can't decide what their children are and aren't exposed to but it's common sense to teach your children as they grow. Teach them the facts about the subjects they're exposed to because it's all a parent can do. Why is it that some children had subscriptions to fashion magazines and some didn't? Because their parents subscribed to them for them. Why is it some girls in junior/high school always had manicures and were concerned about having the same hair color as their friends? Because their parents allowed it. Some parents allow kids to be kids and to copycat everything they see, some parents take active roles in their children's lives and shape themselves into something children can look up to instead of the most popular girl at school.
My friends had fashion magazines and while my parents wouldn't have stopped me from having them too, it was from their active influence that I put myself above thinking I had to look or be a certain way and that I didn't need a guidebook telling me how I should dress or what I should look like. Their influence provided me with the ability to be above peer and media influence. That's what parents are for, to guide and protect and teach.
No one requires anyone to starve. That is not a reality. I don't care how much pressure people believe are placed onto these models, there are OTHER options, healthy options that are in fact STRONGLY SUPPORTED so that models do not resort to such eating disorder behavior. Such behavior is personal choice of the model who will insist on taking the most disastrously easy way out.
Models are not workers who are forced to work in harmful conditions because they can't find work in anything else. Everything is choice
Every single model who's told me they were told to lose weight somewhere has never told me their agency told them to put down the fork. No. The agency took an active role in sending them to personal trainers or suggesting exercise regimens or nutritionists so they wouldn't resort to the quickfix option. They want to prevent that. Starving models who don't have the energy or strength to work are bad for business. They're being taught and shown the proper way to manage their bodies without becoming unhealthy. I just don't understand why people insist that starvation is generally promoted when completely opposite efforts are in fact made constantly.
-Rachel
Dear Rachel,
I found this in one of my textbook
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WORDS OD WISDOM
The following was written by Charles Hall, an African American copywriter and film director. While some of it applies specifically to people of color, it’s good advice for anyone starting out:
to the blacks browns reds and yellows periwinkles teals and fuchsias
if you want to be in advertising, there is one thing to remember
don’t be afraid.
of hard work, rejection, racism, responsibility, sexism.
don’t be afraid of being in the only one in the room.
don’t be afraid to ask questions, find answers, listen, hear, trust.
don’t be afraid to follow, don’t be afraid to lead
don’t be afraid to grow, to mature, to change.
don’t be afraid to try, to fail, to try again, fail again, try again and fail again. don’t be afraid to ask for help.
don’t be afraid to be smart, clever, witty, funky, hard, street, elegant, beautiful, you.
don’t be afraid to be fired.
don’t be afraid when you hear the work nigger.
don’t be afraid to remind them that right after the black jokes come the jewish jokes the polish jokes and the fat jokes.
don’t be afraid to master the craft, to master the game.
don’t be afraid when they don’t understand your accent, dialect, or slang, your heroes, your sex symbols, your style, your music, your people, your culture, your you.
don’t be afraid to take criticism.
don’t be afraid to be wrong, to be right.
don’t be afraid to speak your mind, stand up for what you believe and pay the consequences.
don’t be afraid to be a team player, don’t be afraid to be the peon, the rookie, the junior, the helper, he pair of hands, the intern, the student.
don’t be afraid to not be the victim, don’t be afraid to not take it personally, don’t be afraid to call a spade a spade.
don’t be afraid to have personality, an opinion, a point of view, a perspective, an objective, a positive attitude.
don’t be afraid of those who are threatened by presence, or feel you don’t belong, or those who need you to fail for them to succeed.
don’t be afraid to understand the difference between racism and insecurity, between racism and power, between sexism and chauvinism.
don’t be afraid to forgive, to apologize, to be humble.
don’t be afraid to surrender, to win, to lose, to fight
don’t be afraid of titles, award, salaries, egos, office, windows, ponytails, clothes, jewelry, degrees, backgrounds lifestyles, cars, beach houses.
don’t be afraid to compete.
don’t be afraid of not being popular.
don’t be afraid to work weekends, holidays, birthdays, sick days, personal days.
don’t be afraid to work twice as hard, twice as long, twice as good.
don’t be afraid to get moce out of this business thatn this business ever intended on giving.
p.s. and under no circumstances whatsoever are you to be intimidated, because some will try.
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Advertising Strategy: Creative Tactics from the Outside/In (p.71)
by Tom Altstiel & Jean Grow
I think modeling is also a part of advertising. And the words of wisdom above apply not only in advertising but also in everyday life. You put a good effort on explaining. I admire you for that.
Best regards,
m.dd
Dear everyone who criticizes the fashion industry for being discriminative:
The best way to make a significant change is by changing it internally. What kind of effort have you been giving?
Dear mothers who let the television and magazine to babysit the children:
You should try watching Uptown Girls.
Best Regards,
m.dd
Rachel,
First off, kudos for doing a Q&A with a fat'n'fashion themed blog. It's true that big girls have been ignored by the fashion world for years (Lane Bryant? Hello? Are you listening?), and it's nice to see a denizen of that world speaking up. You're kind of like the skinny, popular girls in high school who wouldn't give us the time of day, now hanging out with us at the punch bowl at the five-year reunion- and I mean that in a good way.
As far as your comments regarding parenting and the influence of popular culture on young women go, though, you're way off the mark. I mean no disrespect, of course, however you've been neither fat nor a parent. Women and girls are bombarded (I don't use the word lightly) with images of thin (happy) women, with advertisements of products that promise to MAKE us thin (happy) women, with all the sad detritus of a multi-billion dollar weight-loss industry that's taken the message of the fashion world- be thin or be relegated to the slag heap of sex- and run with it. They throw this junk at us and at our daughters until our throats are choked with it, and so we swallow it down.
It's not that I'm better or more real than you, it's just that I know what it's like on this side of the wall. You don't. A lot of us struggle with food, and to hear someone say "I've got a crazy fast metabolism and have to eat like a horse to keep the weight on"... Well, you're not qualified to decide whether or not fashion is influencing us and our daughters. You ARE fashion, effortlessly. You occupy, with no effort (the effort to keep your body culturally attractive), the heights to which we try not to aspire, because it's a heartbreaking and futile climb. We end up winded halfway up the hill, our shirts pasted to our backs with sweat and our thighs chafing.
As far as parenting goes do you really think that mothers can completely eradicate the deep-sea pull of peer pressure and media saturation? That's unrealistic and jejune. We can influence, but we can't rule absolutely.
i think this is a good interview and has some good points that make a lot of sense. and i think everyone just needs to chill the fuck out and stop freaking out.
nice interview =D
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